In this episode of the solecast I speak with Phil Neel. Phil is the author of Hinterland, a new book out on University of Chicago Press that examines what class conflict looks like as we zoom outward from the financial hubs and downtowns to the rural, suburban and exurban communities. In this conversation we talk about how logistics function on a global scale as capital has become diffuse and what this says about the way our system functions. Phil talks about places like Ferguson and Anaheim as examples, and gives context as to why things break down in these locations and what it means for the present & future. We talk about climate disaster, the nuances of so called “Trump Country”, and the importance of analyzing data instead of projecting our own ideas onto situations. We end the conversation with some take-aways from the book and how it can inform our thinking (and our actions).